To coincide with the launch of one of this year’s most creatively consuming electronic albums, we caught up with the distinct and skilful artistic corner of phase trois, to talk all about the sound and concept of The Magic Maze II.
We dig into his journey as an electronic music producer, the importance of feeling and focus at the helm, the changing tone of his repertoire, the impact of AI on music production, and plenty more. Here’s the conversation full.
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phase trois – awesome to catch up with you, and what an album! Let’s talk about Magic Maze II. This is surely an electronic music fan’s dream creative project. What’s the story behind the music?
It started life as a single 14 track album, but I decided to expand it and make it into two parts. Some of the slightly rougher, more blurry elements will make more sense when the first volume releases.
I also wanted to shift away from the sound of dual world, which was a nightmare creatively and caused me to quit making music years ago. I came back around four years later to finish it out of stubbornness.. but the design and concept of that album was extremely limited. It stifled me creatively, but I was too stubborn to abandon it which ultimately caused me to burn out. I hadn’t opened a DAW in four years when work started on it again.
When I finally finished work on it, I decided to go back to the more melodic and carelessly creative place I started from with Fragments. It involved undoing some of the rules and formulas i’d set starting from Circuits of the Past.
You’ve captured a really interesting balance between fun and evocative in my view. The first few minutes are electrifying but colourful, catchy, almost tribal-industrial but also strangely calming. What was your headspace like when composing these tracks, and what did you personally gain from crafting this album?
I went for a more 360 sound on this one, throwing in a few subgenres I hadn’t played with before and really liked the idea of people having more of a choice when listening. I like the idea of tracks changing depending on the mood of the listener, so there are sections where you can view them as calming or aggressive depending on which sounds you focus on. The way it’s mixed plays a big part in that.
From the retro and funky to the outright euphoric, this album is an ethereal and entertaining journey. It feels almost like an orchestra of electronic moments, rather than a series of tracks on an album. Was it your intention to make something that flows through so seamlessly in a single listen?
That’s a really interesting question. I think a lot of it ended up being subconscious this time around. I try not to overthink the mechanics, but there was definitely a subconscious effort to connect the tracks to each other in unexpected ways and create more transitions within those tracks. I’ve been making music since I was around 7 technically, and album structure is definitely one of the things I paid attention to even as a kid.
Magic Maze II is also bit more obvious and loud with what it does, so instead of switching up 2-3 sounds at once i’d try to shift the whole vibe a bit more. It comes back to me using different techniques, throwing out the rules i’d set before and pretending this was a first release to some extent.
The track that peaks at 5:30 is stunning. Tell me about the meaning of this one, and your feelings as you escaped into the creative process for it?
I forgot you heard the whole thing without the track titles lol. Ultramid is a revisit to my original sound, bringing a bit of nostalgia there for a bit before it goes into Ebzya. It blends together some of the older sounds which I had to go back and pull the cobwebs off to get working again. It was strange to go back to those old project files from 2013-2016, and get the keyboard out I hadn’t touched in years. The process for that track, from performing it to mixing and mastering was made in exactly the same way it would have been done back in 2015.
What would you say separates this project from the bulk of your previous work?
I’s a lot more musical. A deliberately absurd, preposterous outlier to some extent. It will make sense when volume 1 comes out.
And yet there are notable threads between this and Fragments, and the In Koto track from last year. Why uphold these connections, and is that purely sonically or conceptually, too?
Although it’s part of The Magic Maze series, it’s also a soft sequel to Fragments and Circuits. I won’t lie and say it came easily to get all of these connections right, but I wanted to do all of this because dual world went a bit too far with what it did. It alienated original listeners too much. It made me hate the process for that entire chapter even more lol. Focusing on one big concept until it gets finished isn’t always worth it and can burn a lot of time. Not all ideas need to get completed, especially when it costs other projects in the process.
What are your thoughts on the current electronic music landscape, both mainstream and underground, and do you still value the organic approach, or is there appeal in the tools made available by AI?
I’ve been working on Magic Maze II and dual world over the past two years and been so heavily locked in, trying not to be influenced by other things that I don’t know much about the current state electronic music is currently in.
When it comes to AI and neural networks, I think everyone understands it now. The technology seems mindblowing at first, but there’s still room for improvement before it can be seamlessly used. I see AI being used by virtually all electronic musicians in a few years, which is why I’ve started playing with it lately. I used a bit of it on Neurosis.
What would you say is your general ethos or intention as a modern creative – what drives you, and where do your aspirations lie in terms of what you present to the world or to an individual listener?
I’m only driven creatively by new things, whether it’s using a hi hat in a weird way or making my own custom tech to make something as close as it can be to unique. If my tracks can help in some microscopic way to help people feel better, think outside the box or even inspire someone to start making music themselves (even if it’s from a “This is shit, I can do better” standpoint) then i’m happy with that.
How important is concept to your music making process – do you come up with a theme or idea first, or just start playing with sounds and making music, to see where your mind wanders to?
“It always starts with a clear concept, a big thing to work towards and I generally don’t make music aimlessly or purely for fun. That’s something I’m looking to change at some point, whether it’s for the next release or later on.”
When we move from something uplifting and euphoric, to something more mellow and floaty, there’s a kind of cinematic effect to the way the vibe of the room changes and your thought patterns with it, as a listener. Do you hope that people follow the same emotional pathways as you did when producing the music, or is it freeing to consider that the project is completely in the hands of its audience and their interpretations once released? Specifically, the shift at around 10 minutes in is quite sublime, and took me somewhere totally unexpected.
I hope for both. Neither completely dictating or being completely random. The thought of everyone having their own individual experience with the album might be what I found most interesting while working on it. It would be really boring and nightmarish if I had the ability to conduct all listeners’ emotions identically. The track you’ve mentioned (Ebzya) was one of the earliest tracks I made for this series, and crazily it might be the fastest I’ve ever got a track done. That track in particular is about grief, loss and that part you mention is where the situation is finally accepted.
Who are some of your biggest influences, and where do you find new electronic music these days?
I’m inspired by everything. Cinema and visuals often inspire me whether it’s David Lynch, Stanley Kubrick, Denis Villeneuve, Park Chan-Wook, David Fincher.. and even video game series like Resident Evil, Fallout and atmospheric liminal space heavy things inspire me a bit. When it comes to music, there’s obviously the masters everyone knows such as Beastie Boys, Depeche Mode, Yello, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin obviously, The Dust Brothers, Squarepusher, Plaid, Randy Newman, Casiopea, MF Doom, Caribou, Nick Drake, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Kanye West, Michael Jackson, The Prodigy, Yellow Magic Orchestra, David Bowie, Nine Inch Nails, Hot Chip, Yeasayer, The Roots, El-P w/ Run The Jewels, Linkin Park, Korn, Ministry and Masayoshi Takanaka. Those are the most well known ones which come to mind before I get into all of the lesser known artists like DMX Krew, Alice Piasenn, Ceephax, EOD, Legowelt, 808 State and all of the soundcloud artists I like: EvoAva, MoonBaseBaby, Margaret Fart Particle, sadfem, Titch Thomas and many others you can see on my following list.
Also a fan of some recent artists like Megan Thee Stallion and The Weeknd. I need to spend a ton of time finding everything I missed. Again, when I took that huge break it was from listening to music as well. Should also mention i’ve enjoyed all of your music i’ve heard so far.
In what ways has your mindset, skillset or ambition evolved since the release of Lucid?
I’m a lot more open to whatever ideas come, instead of staying around that electronica/IDM box which left me feeling unfulfilled around the time Lucid was released. I had to step away from that corner of electronic music to become creative again.
Where do you envision this album best being enjoyed by listeners, and why?
It’s hard to pinpoint that, just hope as many people hear it and enjoy it as possible. Probably a good release to listen to while gaming or studying.
With the rise of AI generated music making ‘production’ accessible to everyone, the landscape is understandably flooded with releases. What kind of shift do you anticipate in terms of underground or indie music recapturing its own scene, and how do we identify authentic music, when so many people consider AI as no different to synths?
I made some interesting tools which are making some things easier and it feels crazy to think back to when every track was like birthing a new universe from scratch. I didn’t save any templates, presets, mixing chains, master buses, synth settings or anything. Rarely used the same drums across tracks either, and on some level I think the whole process contributed to me taking that long break. Things have taken a quantum leap compared to when people were splicing tape together.. which I luckily never had to do as i’m a 90s kid lol.
“Just four decades later, anyone can type under 10 words in a prompt and make a near professional sounding track in seconds. I think the difference is going to become indecipherable to 99.9% of people at some point.”
You bring a touch of electronic jazz to this album at one point – it takes me back to the old school mega drive games, personally. How much does nostalgia play a role in helping you navigate the creative realm?
Nostalgia played a big role in this album and I loved all of that stuff when I was a kid. Mainly SNES, but loved the Sonic games as well especially on Dreamcast. At times I was wondering, what would the 5 year old me enjoy musically? That’s where the playful melodies came from. I used to make songs in my imagination from the age of 4, and some of the melodies (Plow King for example) took inspiration from that.
What’s your biggest hope for this project?
Hopefully it connects to all listeners new and old who come along, and obviously if it succeeds beyond what I can imagine it’ll make the next release happen a bit faster. I’ve already got the release date for the next one in my head.
What’s the best thing about making original music from scratch?
The feeling of freedom, which only seems to be there when I’m creating stuff. It’s like climbing a new mountain each time when I create those bigger tracks like Midst, Veldland and i’d put Zmkru in that category as well.
Is there anything else you’d like to say?
There’s been some struggles. Family issues, issues since birth and mental health stuff I had to work out… insecurities and challenges I didn’t know I had and The Magic Maze has been therapy for all of that. Feels like i’m at this intersection where i’m physically, mentally and creatively in a better place and I feel that shows through on this release. Happy with how it turned out.
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Find phase trois on Bandcamp.
