Former chess grandmaster come avid songwriter and AI producer GM Jon has produced a multitude of original songs in the past year or so, not least of all his beloved folk collection honouring The Best Of The Dead Poets.
We were blessed with the chance to talk in depth with Jon, about his life, his creative pursuits, his experiences as a chess grandmaster, and his true thoughts on AI songwriting and composition.
If you’ve been wanting to understand more clearly the role of AI for many modern songwriters, this conversation shines light on the factors that inspire interest.
It was a real pleasure discussing all of this with GM Jon. Here’s the conversation in full.
* * *
GM Jon – great to connect with you. To introduce things, how is life in Suffolk lately, and how would you personally describe the music you’ve been making?
Suffolk is lovely in summer. I am married and live with my wife, stepdaughter and Buffy the cockapoo. There are plenty of riverside and coastal options not too far away if one wants to get out and about. I am a Londoner originally, but not sure I would fancy living there again.
I am obviously prejudiced in favour of myself, but I really like my music. The aim is to produce songs with real quality. What is the point otherwise? There is so much music out there already, that unless you can create something which sounds great, you are not really adding any value.
What introduced you to AI music making, and what is it about the use of AI that took your interest?
Last year, I wrote a poem and put it on X/Twitter…and an Indian friend of mine turned it into a song two hours later (using AI). I had no idea how good AI music was before that and it opened my eyes to the possibilities. A few weeks later I learned how to use the Suno program myself and I have been totally immersed in producing songs the last few months…in a sort of creative bubble. What interested me was that I could create stuff that actually sounded good. I had never imagined that it would be possible for me to do that previously.
Oscar Wilde’s Requiescat is beautiful – tell me about the creative process. Just a guitar and voice, a new lyrical journey. How did you get started and ultimately build and record this, and why this theme?
Initially, the songs I did were with my own lyrics. ‘Culture Clash’ and ‘The Joke Song’ were amongst the first. It is a challenge writing lyrics and although I think I can do a fairly good job in the end, it takes me a long time. I am not a natural. I can only get a result with a lot of hard work. I was aware there were some amazing lyrics out there written by long dead poets and very few musicians have made really good music using them. Van Morrison did a great song of William Blake’s ‘Let the slave’ on his 1985 album, ‘A sense of Wonder’. but there are surprisingly few other examples. I wanted to try out my new musical production skills on some of this material and the key was to pick the right poems for the purpose. ‘Standing on the shoulders of giants’ as Newton put it…
What is it about the dead poets that draws such passion from you, and how do you think writers like Oscar Wilde would react to machines reinterpreting their work?
The words they wrote are just fabulous…I mean what great poetry! If tuning it into music brings them a new audience so much the better. I would like to think they would approve, but asking them is a bit beyond my pay-grade.
“In a little while AI might be able to communicate with the dead. Maybe we should check back next Thursday!”
I’m a huge fan of William Blake, so was intrigued by your London song. What exactly did you input to get these results?
I agree Rebecca…Blake was just brilliant. Revolutionary!
The first stage is to select the right poems and input the lyrics. Then you have to choose what style you want the song created in. Rock, grunge, rap, folk…Then decide the type of voice, male or female, melodic or raspy…you can ask for various things. You can speed it up or slow it down, you can ask for specific instruments. Quite a lot of choices.
Once you start getting some results, the toughest choice is often when to stop trying for even better…and which version to go with. I think it is something a lot of people can potentially do…and some will do it better than others, depending on their ability to make decisions and their musical feel and judgment. In my earlier life I was a professional chess grandmaster. I am used to making decisions under duress.
The vocal versatility from one song to the next – what’s your intention as a creative, and how do you choose the right voice, considering the raspy alternative on the likes of Mesopotamia?
Well we all have our own prejudices. I have a preference for raspy. Some people think Dylan is a great songwriter but cannot sing. I think he is also a great singer. But sometimes the song demands something other than your normal prejudice…the critical thing is to find what works. I think that applies with lyrics too sometimes, when you are writing your own that is. If the music is not working overall, changing the lyrics can be what moves you forward.
What inspired you to write the quirky yet warm folk song ‘Have you ever lost your car at Handforth Dean’?
The lyrics for that one were written by my collaborator, Professor Tudor Rickards. He has written lyrics for around ten of the songs I have produced. There is now an album of his songs out. He is a brilliant person to work with, always providing me with imaginative and lively lyrics. He is getting on a bit (born 1941), so I did wonder if he once forgot where he parked his car in the massive car park at Handforth Dean…and that is what inspired the song, but it felt a bit rude to ask.
You’ve produced over fifty new songs this year, openly using AI to write and produce. You reference that we’ve always used technology to enhance music, which is true, but where do we draw the line? The human aspect of music is often what connects, that sense of someone real, experiencing the same feelings as us, appears like a moment shared. How can an artificial intelligence achieve the same sense of escapism or unity?
Actually I do not use AI to write lyrics, but I do rely on it for the music. For now I think many humans can still write better lyrics than machines. I think only a handful of top musicians are still better at creating and performing the music.
In chess, Kasparov was defeated by a machine 30 years ago in 1995. It is only in recent months that machines have started catching up with the top musicians and singers. I am listening to ‘Dave Does Dylan’, Dave Stewart’s very recently released album, and it is great – I think he is one of the few still just ahead of AI, but AI is gaining ground all the time.
“To me what matters musically is the song, not who or what created it. It is already very difficult to tell the difference between machine creations and human creations. People think they can, but often they cannot.”
I am not sure there is a line to be drawn…Human musicians might want us to, maybe for spiritual reasons, maybe to protect their own interests…but you also have to consider the rights of non-musicians, both to create music themselves, and also people in general have a right to listen to music. Why restrict their choice if they might enjoy AI created songs?
If you can only protect one group of people’s interests at the cost of another group of people’s interests…where is the morality in that? Maybe machines borrow or steal ideas from human musicians, but then again so do other humans.
My understanding is that songs like Culture Clash are entirely your own lyrics. Many songwriters find that process soothing, to get thoughts out in a coherent and poetic, even beautiful way – it helps us understand things. Do you find writing from your own headspace more therapeutic and satisfying, than to simply prompt a computer?
It feels like a more complete creative process when I write my own lyrics, well if they are any good anyway. Sometimes the ‘simply prompting a computer’ is anything but simple and can involve a lot of work. Getting from the first draft of the lyrics to the final song can be very tricky indeed. I would say that it is only with a handful of the songs that part has been relatively easy.
Are you ever tempted to hire real singers and record live performances, or is this all an at-home creative route – no live-show desires?
I would be delighted if human musicians wanted to do any of my songs and would happily collaborate with someone good. I am 62 years old and do not enjoy great health. I have no interest in performing live, even if that was something I could do in a meaningful way. I mean I could turn up with a computer and sound system…and talk about some of the ideas behind the songs…like some kind of DJ, but that’s not what people want anyway. They want a physical and social experience when they go to a gig, something they share with the other members of the audience…the atmosphere. I am not trying to create that.
You’re a retired chess grandmaster – what did your years playing chess teach you about life and connection, and how do those lessons translate into music and creative expression?
You ask some tough questions! Years dedicated to chess has changed my brain, my mindset and my way of thinking in many subtle and not so subtle ways. It probably made me tougher psychologically, used to making and living with decisions, both the good ones and the very bad ones.
It is beyond my grasp to communicate, or even to have any clear idea about, how it has changed me musically or in terms of how I express myself. In general the rules are clearer and more defined in chess than they are in music. Within those restrictions, chess is a creative field too to some extent, but it is essentially an intellectual fight. There might be some kind of fight to grab one’s share of the limelight in music too, but the music itself is different. You are not trying to win, you are trying to create something beautiful.
What’s your biggest ambition as an AI music producer, and what are your thoughts on live shows / gigs once the AI starts to, as your article predicts, take control of the music realm?
I am just trying to create some really good songs. I am not seeking fame or fortune. Obviously, having put a lot of effort into creating the songs, it would be.nice to get feedback and to know people are listening to them. So to that extent I am wanting to spread the word, but I have not set about doing so yet.
I have no interest in gigs and shows. It surprises me that some people are prepared to travel hundreds of miles, pay hundreds of pounds for a ticket and spend two days of their life just to attend a gig, but cant be asked to click on a link to hear something musically just as good on their computer. Other people huh?
Is there anything else we should know?
There are doubtless many things, but you have already heard way too much from me. Let’s give someone else a chance.
* * *
Find all things GM Jon on YouTube & Facebook or read this self-penned article to find out more.
